Tag: Mormon

The Contradiction of Mormonism

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The Mormon church has experienced quite a bit of growth over the past several years, and with that growth has come the birth (or perhaps rebirth) of LDS apologetics and online influencers. This has sparked major debates between Mormons and members of other faiths or no faith at all. It has also sparked the creation of major online accounts on Youtube and other platforms critiquing the Mormon church by ex-members. Most importantly, from my perspective, it’s sparked intense debate between Latter Day saints and members of mainstream Christian denominations. One of these debates is a particularly fascinating dialogue between Gavin Ortlund and Jacob Hansen on the Trinity, if you’re interested feel free to check it out HERE.

Today though I wanted to give my perspective on the Mormon religion and why I don’t believe in it, nor consider it a genuine expression of the Christian faith. Growing up I was told by other Christians that they believed a lot of crazy things like having a bunch of kids is necessary so that “alien spirits” can possess them. Having studied Mormonism more thoroughly I’ve shed a lot of the misconceptions, but my main reason for rejecting it is their stance on the Trinity. 

To put it simply, Mormons don’t believe in the Trinity. They believe that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are part of the “Godhead”, meaning that they share the same doctrine and purpose, but they are not one in nature. The Trinity teaches that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed three distinct persons but also sharing one indivisible divine nature. Unpacking the doctrine of the Trinity and explaining why it’s an orthodox Christian belief however requires a separate post, so I’ll save that for another time. 

Back to the Mormon view of the Godhead, their interpretation of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit’s relationship I think is demonstrated clearly in these quotes from various elders: 

“Latter-day Saints pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. They acknowledge the Father as the ultimate object of their worship, the Son as Lord and Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit as the messenger and revealer of the Father and the Son. But where Latter-day Saints differ from other Christian religions is in their belief that God and Jesus Christ are glorified, physical beings and that each member of the Godhead is a separate being. The true doctrine of the Godhead was lost in the apostasy that followed the Savior’s mortal ministry and the deaths of His Apostles.- churchofjesuschrist.org., “Godhead.”

“We do not believe in what the Christian world calls the doctrine of the Holy Trinity. In his First Vision, Joseph Smith saw two distinct personages, two beings, thus clarifying that the then-prevailing beliefs concerning God and the Godhead were not true…We know that the three members of the Godhead are separate and distinct beings. We know this from instruction given by the Prophet Joseph Smith: “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit.” – Dallin H. Oaks, “The Godhead and the Plan of Salvation.”

“We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four.” – Jeffrey R Holland, “The Only True God And Jesus Christ Whom He Hath Sent.”

Contrary to the doctrine of the Trinity, the Mormon church confesses that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are completely separate beings that don’t share the same divine substance. Scripture though paints a much different picture, starting at the very first chapter of Genesis: 

“Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So God created mankind in his own image in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” – Genesis 1:26-27

“I and the Father are one.” – John 10:30.

“For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.” – 1 John 5:7 (Note: this passage only exists in the KJV, but that’s the version that the Mormon church uses for their copies of the Old and New Testament.)

This is far from an exhaustive list, but I choose these verses specifically because they demonstrate how the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one. When you take passages like these alongside Jesus praying to the Father, Him being seated at the right hand of God at Stephens martyrdom, and all three persons of the Trinity being present at His baptism (as mentioned by Holland above), you get a good foundation for what we Christians refer to as the Trinity. I should mention that Latter Day saints don’t ignore verses like these, some people will set you up for making you look silly by not pointing that out. 

Rather, they’ll argue that while the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are “one” in the sense of having one purpose, they aren’t one being. Notice though that in Genesis 1:27 after God says He’ll make man in “His own image”, alongside “our image” in verse 26. This shows a singularity between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit along with the distinct personages referenced in the previous verses. If verses talking about the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit being “one” meant that they shared one purpose, these texts would’ve said so. 

More than that however, I want to call attention to what might be the biggest defeater for the Mormon church’s interpretation/rejection of the Trinity: The Book of Mormon itself. 

“An Angel prophesies: ‘For behold, the time cometh, and is not far distant, that with power, the Lord Omnipotent who reigneth, who was, and is from all eternity to all eternity, shall come down from heaven among the children of men…And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning…” Mosiah 3:5-8

“Amulek declares: ‘Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father? And Amulek said unto him: Yeah, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning and the end, the first and the last.” – Alma 11:38-39

“The resurrected Jesus speaks to the Nephites: ‘Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the whole world.” – 3 Nephi 11:14

“Samuel the Lamanite prophesies:…’and ye shall know of his coming and know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning.” – Helaman 14:12

“Behold, I am he who was prepared from the foundation of the world to redeem my people. Behold, I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son. In me shall all mankind have life, and that eternally, even they who shall believe on my name; and they shall become my sons and my daughters.” – Ether 3:14

“And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.”  – 2 Nephi 31:21

“And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.” – Mormon 7:7

These verses clearly speak of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as distinct persons but consisting of one being, not three distinct persons with one purpose. Jesus is said to be the Father, and all three persons of the Trinity are said to be one God. 

Conclusion

When speaking with Mormon missionaries, you’ll often be told to prayerfully read the Book of Mormon with an open mind and heart. This, they say, will lead you to realize that the Book of Mormon is true and another testament of Jesus Christ. But as shown above, if you were to take what it says about Jesus’ divinity and the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, it will likely lead you to a Trinitarian understanding of God that flies in the face of what the Mormon church has taught elsewhere. Of course I don’t accept that the Book of Mormon is another testament we can add to the Bible, but if I did, I’d be grateful for the further prooftexts that demonstrate the truth of the Trinity. 

If you’re a Latter Day saint, I’d encourage your feedback on this post. I welcome comments and (constructive) criticism, and if there’s anything I may have missed in my critique of your religion, please let me know. For now though I think the reasons I’ve outlined above are sufficient not to accept Mormonism as an authentic expression of the Christian faith. 

Addressing Three Common Atheist Arguments

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For those who don’t know, Alyssa Grenfell is a popular Youtuber who’s famous for her story of leaving the Mormon church. Much of her content is focused on critiquing LDS beliefs and practices, but occasionally she talks about how her worldview has changed and why she’s an atheist. I recommend you check out her channel. I think you’ll find her videos interesting, especially if you’re also an ex Mormon. 

Today though I wanted to address her reasons for being an atheist, since these are arguments I often see levied against Christians in atheist vs theist discussions. I’ll outline them below:

  1. “Most people are the religion of their parents.”

This is one of the most popular arguments against Christianity, and religion in general. Basically the idea is that all or most religious people only believe what they do because their parents taught it to them, and not for intellectually pure reasons. But there are two problems with this position.

First of all, even if it was true that the majority of religious people are only believers because of their parents’ upbringing, that wouldn’t prove their religion false. In Alyssa’s case she’s raising her children in a secular household, but if they grew up to be atheist because of their upbringing that wouldn’t prove atheism false. For another example, there are plenty of people out there who can’t defend their belief in the theory of evolution. They only believe it because it’s what they were taught in schools, but it would be absurd to say that’s proof that evolution is false. It’s actually a subtle form of ad hominem: Ad hominem circumstantial, where you attack the personal circumstances of someone making an argument rather than directly addressing the argument itself.

For a Christian, you need to prove that Jesus didn’t rise from the dead to show why their religion is false. Simply saying, “You believe it because your parents taught you” isn’t an argument.

Second, the idea that if one religion were true everyone would convert to it ignores factors like cultural conditioning, personal biases, and free will. In Christianity’s case, the fact that everyone has not converted to it doesn’t prove that it isn’t true or even isn’t obviously true. Many people simply haven’t had the opportunity to hear the Gospel, in which case God will judge them fairly based on the limited knowledge they have. Or they don’t believe simply because they don’t want to. Of course I’m not saying people CAN’T have good reasons for not believing, but I would argue that Christianity’s truth is evident enough to those with an open mind. Particularly since every secular explanation for the resurrection of Jesus Christ falls apart on closer inspection. (Although that’s a post for another time.)

But more than that, I can flip this argument around: If there obviously was no God and religion was obviously nonsense, why does 80 percent of the human population believe?

  1. “If God is good, why is there evil in the world?”

Alyssa doesn’t use this exact phrasing, but her argument stems from this line of thinking. She uses the example of God supposedly saving a baby from dying while other babies die in poverty as proof that if there was a God, he’d be a horrible person. 

To be fair, this is something a lot of believers wrestle with as well. The problem of evil has been a struggle for many people across many religions, and the unfairness of life is even addressed in Scripture (Psalm 73.) I don’t think you’ll find any serious Christian who denies this reality and hasn’t struggled with it. So I want to approach this topic with extra sensitivity. 

That being said, this too can be countered by another question, one that C.S. Lewis articulates perfectly: 

If there is no God, no transcendent value to anything, and what we call “good” or “evil” is just a chemical reaction in our brains shaped by millions of years of randomized, chaotic evolution…what real difference is there between a baby being saved and it dying? Someone asserting that the suffering we see in this world is consistent with a perfectly good God existing is no less objectively correct than Alyssa’s claim that it isn’t.

But even then, if Christianity is true, then death isn’t the end. We don’t “die”, per se, we just change locations. So even the baby who dies in poverty will experience the same eternal rest and consolation of the baby whose life was saved. Again I know this is a very sensitive topic and I don’t want to minimize the suffering of anyone who’s lost a child, but I’d ask that whoever poses this question at least seriously look at it through a theistic lens before dismissing religion as nonsense because of it. 

  1. “There is no evidence for God.”

This is probably the most common argument you’ll hear from atheists. If you are a theist debating an atheist, nine times out of ten you’ll hear them say God doesn’t exist because there’s no evidence for it. 

I don’t want to sound rude, but this is just a lazy assertion. The reason I say this is because whenever the point is made that there’s no evidence for God’s existence, there’s never a clear criteria given for what would qualify as evidence that God exists. Some people like CS Lewis converted because of the argument from morality. Others like Lee Strobel converted when they examined the historical evidence for Christs’ resurrection. Still others convert when they see the vast order and complexity of the universe, convinced that there’s a creative mind behind it. These people have a clear idea of what constitutes evidence that God exists, but if the atheist presenting this question can’t provide that, then there’s no discussion to be had. 

Alyssa then argues that when her believer friends talk about miracles happening in their lives, there’s always a more logical explanation than God or the supernatural. I’m not sure what miraculous stories she’s heard, but from what I’ve seen, stage 4 cancer being healed after prayer, convincing even the secular doctor taking care of the patient that something supernatural is going on isn’t something that can be explained in a lot of other ways. 

Conclusion

I don’t mean any offense to Alyssa in writing this post. Like I said I recommend you check out her channel, including her Youtube short that I linked above. The reason I’m responding to her arguments for atheism is because these are some of the most common arguments I hear atheists make, and I thought it was an easy opportunity for me to give my rebuttal to them. 

I hope you enjoyed reading, and if you’re an atheist, that this post at least gave you something to think about.